Abortion Doctor’s Murder Trial Sparks Media Debate

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AP

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, in an undated photo provided by the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office

Some journalists are asking why the murder trial of a Philadelphia abortion doctor isn’t receiving more coverage.

In 2010, police raided Dr. Kermit Gosnell’s abortion clinic, called the Women’s Medical Society, in a low-income neighborhood of West Philadelphia and found what a grand jury report called a “baby charnel house” where illegal and late-term abortions were performed under dangerous conditions. Now on trial, Gosnell is charged with the deaths of one patient and seven babies allegedly born alive during abortion procedures; eight former employees — none of whom were certified doctors — may also face prison time.

(MORE: Why the Pennsylvania Abortion Doc’s Case Is About Poverty, Not Roe v. Wade)

A 2011 grand jury report detailed the illegal and late-term abortions Gosnell performed, as well as the disturbing conditions at Gosnell’s clinic — including bloodstained furniture, a heavy stench of urine and scattered feces from roaming cats. Some abortions were done so late, according to the report, that Gosnell allegedly snipped the babies’ spinal chords after they were born and still breathing.

The grand jury also estimated that Gosnell’s abortion practice took in about $1.8 million a year, mostly in cash, assuming he conducted only three procedures a night. And that did not include the additional income he received from allegedly writing illegal prescriptions. Read the full report of charges here. (Please note: the document contains graphic descriptions.)

TIME covered the charges here in a 2011 story.

While Gosnell’s trial began on March 18, media controversy is now mounting after USA Today contributor Kirsten Powers wrote a column chastising the media for the lack of trial coverage, arguing that bias obstructed the story from making headlines. She wrote:

Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News’ Brian Williams intoned, “A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh,” as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn’t make the cut.

You don’t have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being “pro-choice” or “pro-life.” It’s about basic human rights.

Other outlets and columnists have since weighed in as well. The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf called the news value of the story “undeniable,” and Megan McArdle, a special correspondent for the Daily Beast, wrote a commentary, “Why I Didn’t Write About Gosnell’s Trial — and Why I Should Have,” saying, “I wish I had followed it more closely, even though I’d rather not.”

The Daily Beast does point out that in 2011, reporters covered the charges against Gosnell:

The Gosnell story wasn’t blacked out. Here’s an NPR story from a year ago, a Slate story, one from Time, CNN, the Associated Press, and the Daily Beast.

Still, it’s undeniable that media coverage, including our own, has picked up again after Powers’ brought the gruesome trial back to into the spotlight.

(MORE: Philly Abortion Horrors: What Matters Is How and Not When an Abortion Is Done, Says Expert)

Antiabortion advocates are using the case as a call for new restrictions; meanwhile, pro-choice supporters are calling it an example of what happens when women are denied access to safe and cost-friendly care. In 2011, when Gosnell was formally charged, TIME’s Belinda Luscombe wrote that although both sides were making arguments for how the case proves their opponents are wrong, the situation is really most related to poverty. She wrote:

Gosnell’s techniques — using untrained staff, operating the business day and night, not maintaining equipment and not keep up with modern medical techniques (using Demerol is frowned upon these days) — are typical of those in any business trying to cut corners to keep costs low. It’s likely that he was the cheapest abortion provider around in a community that’s not accustomed to the highest health care standards anyway.

Gosnell is currently facing both first- and third-degree murder charges. Three of his eight employees are pleading guilty to third-degree murder. The Associated Press reports that Gosnell’s defense lawyer is arguing that no babies were born alive, and that “unforeseen complications” caused the death of the 41-year-old woman he was performing an abortion on. The trial will resume on Monday.

MORE: Late-Term Abortions: Q&A With the Last Remaining Doctor Who Performs Them

125 comments
CaballeroSerio
CaballeroSerio

Adoption vs Abortion, why not wait 9 months, and give the baby for adoption???? Everybody's rights will be respected. END OF STORY.

vfrickey
vfrickey

Abortion's a vexed issue.  But Dr. Kermit Gosnell's behavior raises questions about just where the line ought to be drawn - if his clinic had been aseptic, with ferns and carpet in the waiting room, perhaps run by America's pet abortion chain Planned Parenthood (despite the Democratic Party's spin, that's pretty much all they do - Planned Parenthood had to turn thousands of women away who were really expecting to GET mammograms and Pap smears at their clinics) would his murder of viable babies protruding from the loins of mothers be all right?

That sort of dialogue isn't interesting to the press.  Or perhaps they're deathly afraid of what the national consensus would be if the dialogue progressed beyond "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it!"  

I am reluctantly pro-choice up to the start of the second trimester of pregnancy.  But I'm not easy about even that.  

The left in this country has its own culture of death going on; more and more of the vocal political left in this country are making the same "useless eaters" arguments pioneered by the Nazis to advocate the denial of life-saving medical care to the elderly.  It started with abortion on demand, all three trimesters.

vfrickey
vfrickey

It's not just this story.  Slate, the Week  and other trendy mags have made very heavy weather about Rep. Joe Heck's son's use of extremely bigoted language online.  Meanwhile, Sen Mary Landrieu (D-La)'s son struck a pedestrian with his car, then drove off from the scene of the crime.  No coverage in either forum.

Do we have to draw a picture, or do you get the pattern?  Right-wing malfeasance, no matter how nonviolent - and as execrable as the Heck boy's behavior was, it WAS nonviolent - trumps left-wing malfeasance for press coverage, even if people got hurt.  Operation Fast and Furious costs a Federal agent his life, and God only knows how many other people died when shot by the guns the Obama administration put in drug gangsters' hands for essentially political motives.  The press yawned, by and large.

It was only after the press' own ox got gored that it told the people about Obama's bad actions in any meaningful way.  Says volumes, doesn't it?

gomerwumphf
gomerwumphf

Given the massive number of abortions performed each year one wonders why so many “progressive” women have so many unwanted pregnancies. It is possible to have sex and not get pregnant. Do they not understand that having sex can result in pregnancy?Are they just too impulsive, lazy, self-absorbed or, well lets be charitable, careless to take appropriate precautions? Hmmm … on the other hand perhaps “progressive” women secretly enjoy abortions, after all an abortion is life or death -is it all about some kind of kind of power trip for them?

AlanGravitt
AlanGravitt

Can you imagine, at the trial of the person who killed your 3 year old, watching him defend himself by saying, but the child was only 2 years 364 days old and I killed him in a cave, and in darkness rather than out in the daylight. It seems to many that the argument of timing and geographical location is difficult.

JimDunbar
JimDunbar

This is the kind of doctor the radical right abortion protestors should be concerned about and not Planned Parenthood that performs a wonderful service for their clients.

shepherdwong
shepherdwong

"Antiabortion advocates are using the case as a call for new restrictions; meanwhile, pro-choice supporters are calling it an example of what happens when women are denied access to safe and cost-friendly care."

Certainly, any woman would prefer "the disturbing conditions at Gosnell’s clinic — including bloodstained furniture, a heavy stench of urine and scattered feces from roaming cats," to a clean, safe, conveniently-located clinic (not surrounded by psychopaths waving "baby-killer" signs and screaming epithets at them). And certainly, they'd want to wait until the last possible moment to have the procedure.

By all means, report this story so maybe we'll finally wake up and do something to replace such depredations with sane, humane women's reproductive health care, especially for the poor.

AJMacDonaldJr
AJMacDonaldJr

There is a MSM blackout NOW of the Leroy Carhart late term abortion case. Carhart killed a women in Germantown, MD and kills live babies (on demand) on a regular basis in the same manner Gosnell did.


Contrary to state laws enacted in November 2012, the state of Maryland certified without inspection Germantown Reproductive Health Services, which is the late term abortion clinic of Leroy Carhart, the day before Carhart killed a women in early February 2013. Carhart performs the same, dangerous three day inducement of labor Gosnell did, which results in the delivery of live babies... after which Carhart kills them... and sometimes the women, too...


#Carhart = #Gosnell


See: Carhart = Gosnell - http://wp.me/pPnn7-2aP 


Carhart Getting Away With Killing Woman in Botched 33-Week Abortion


“On February 7, [2013] 29-yr-old Jennifer Morbelli, pictured right, died at a Maryland hospital the morning after LeRoy Carhart completed the abortion of her 33-wk-old baby in the Germantown, Maryland, mill at which he worked.


“Ironically, the day before Morbelli died the Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene issued licenses to all 17 abortion clinics in the state without ever having inspected them, even though abortion clinic regulations had been enacted in November 2012.”


Source: Carhart Getting Away With Killing Woman in Botched 33-Week Abortion – http://www.lifenews.com/2013/04/09/carhart-getting-away-with-killing-woman-in-botched-33-week-abortion/


GGLR
GGLR

Fox News has reported this case. CNN, NYT, Time, MSNBC, BBS, etc, etc, etc  HAVE NOT.

BSullivan
BSullivan

Abortion advocates can go to the media and to the politicians and point out that the American public doesn't object to abortion.When someone does speak up, the abortion advocates shout them down, calling them discriminatory and uninformed or behind the times.The media labels the pro-life advocate as weak, overly religious, ill-informed.Planned Parenthood and other independent abortion clinics always get their chance to counter the pro-life message in any article or news program, but the reporters seem to lose the pro-life advocate's phone number when they are doing a story on the soft-hearted doctor or abortion advocate who just wants to help those who suffer from rape, incest or expected deformed or diseased fetuses.By the way, the percentage of abortions that are done for convenience or financial reasons over the the number done for serious medical reason or rape or incest is staggering.As an example, in the last national study, the percentage of abortions due to rape or incest was less than 2% of all abortions from coast to coast.So next time an abortionist brings up that issue, be armed with the truth and don't lose the forest for the trees.Ask them to talk about the other 98%.

Jfjudah
Jfjudah

Yes, if only the technique were a bit better, there wouldn't be an issue. With only a little better technique, Enron wouldn't have been a big deal; Susan Smith only made a little mistake; colonialism could be rationalized; Michael Vick was just a misunderstood businessman; and waterboarding would be acceptable. It couldn't possibly be that the thing itself has some inherent badness to it. No, no, it's all about the technique.

—Josh

terrymorse
terrymorse

Interesting to me, how some people use terms that denigrate those with whom they do not agree.  Example in point: the article calls those against abortion as "antiabortion" and those for it as "pro-choice."  Honest journalism requires rather to report without bias  If one camp is pro-choice, then the other should be pro-life.  If the one is antiabortion, then the other should be anti-life.  It is often about redefining the terminology when one cannot win the debate on merits alone.

Terry Morse,  France

denis.mccormick
denis.mccormick

First off, this is about breaking the law and murder, not poverty.  This is about taking advantage of the poor.

Second, This is about widespread abuse that has gone unreported.  A Planned Parenthood facility was just raided last week for the same reasons.  They skate by on inspections and a certain party defends them to the hilt.  I live close to the border and read both stories in the Inquirer and News Journal.

Lastly, covering it in 2011, when the crime was first committed in 2010 doesn't lend any credibility to the MSM.  We expect news timely and accurate.  That's their job.  And they use that as an excuse when new revelations have been discovered during the trial.

georgedixon
georgedixon

Gosnell was doing nothing Planned Parenthood has not publicly advocated.

Founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger (d. 1966) In Her Own Words:

"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." 

March, 29, 2013 

Alisa LaPolt Snow of Planned Parenthood, testified before the Florida Legislature, that her organization believes the decision to kill an infant who survives a failed abortion should be left up to the woman seeking an abortion and her abortion doctor.

 Rep. Jim Boyd. "If a baby is born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, what would Planned Parenthood want to have happen to that child that is struggling for life?”

Snow replied, “That decision should be between the patient and the health care provider.”

pocketnunu
pocketnunu

Good grief, people.  Get a grip.  In PA, performing late term abortion is against the law.  Kermit Gosnell allegedly broke that law, and in the process killed 2 adult women and 7 infants, among other alleged crimes.  This isn't just about abortion.  This is also about racism and poverty and the laxity of the appropriate authorities and agencies that oversee abortion clinics, and the national news media's neglect.  There is much to make this a front page story, to make this at the top of every news and cable news program, and to be followed up by panels of experts and pundits.  But whether for or against abortion, we the public deserve to know what is going on - why are not the "appropriate authorities and agencies" not enforcing laws and regulations that demand a standard of maintenance, the licensing of health practitioners, and the oversight of administration of prescription drugs?  And that's the least of it. 

In2why
In2why

Enforce the laws on the books.  He should be tried and when found guilty serve the maximum  sentence or executed.   As for pro-choice, conception and rights.  As long as a fetus must be in the womb to survive, the person with the womb gets to decide.  Scientifically it is a parasitic relationship.  The woman is the host and gets to decide if she wants to biologically support a fetus until it can support itself.  The second it can survive outside of the womb, the woman loses the right to make that decision.  I do find it interesting though that most people do not know what goes on in Pediatric Intensive Care Units every day.  Newborns that could survive do not because parents are able to decide with their doctors when to stop treatment and how much treatment to provide.  You do realize that parents can decide not to allow any so called heroic measures be taken when theit babies are born premature?  They decide every day many times a day to withhold oxygen, CPR and feeding tubes. 

YesterdaysWine
YesterdaysWine

In 2012, there were 334 murders in Philadelphia. How many made national news? Or are the other victims not as worthy as babies? 

jbliquid
jbliquid

Pro choicers make me sick to my stomach. They always turn a blind eye to this stuff, it goes on more than just this time too. 

Wild_Horses
Wild_Horses

Historically, all manner of neglect, abuse, atrocity, and tyranny has been enabled by denying legal person-hood, and the attendant rights/protections of law to a targeted disfavored groups.  The 1857 Dred Scott SCOTUS decision denied the legal protections of US citizenship to people of African descent (overturned by passage of the 13th & 14th amendments to the US Constitution in 1864).  Hitler's Nazis similarly denied legal person-hood and rights to Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other unfavored groups.  Property confiscation, deportation and death camps followed.  Roe v. Wade followed these historical precedents to deny life, liberty, and any chance to pursue future happiness to a different disfavored group, the human fetus unwanted by its mother (for nearly any reason).     

In response to Dr. Gosnell's abortion atrocities, Sifferlin asserts that women of all socio-economic strata need LESS restrictive access to abortion "services", rather than new laws/regulations of those services.  (Observation:  abortion is NEVER safe for those aborted; the hair-splitting over when in the term of a pregnancy it stops being legal to kill that fetus/baby is disingenuous sophistry.)  Pro-abortion forces simply favor the rights of the killers (the moms and the doctors) over the rights of those killed (the fetuses/babies).  

However, most "pro-choice" advocates, including Time, President Obama, and likely Ms. Sifferlin, usually have a polar opposite reaction to gun atrocities  -- "do something, anything, immediately" (never let a crisis go to waste).  Legislate and regulate NOW, in the emotional heat of the moment (give us some eye-wash!)  In response to Sandy Hook, Feinstein and Obama/Biden advocate reinstatement of the "assault weapons ban" that failed to prevent Columbine, and would also have failed to prevent Sandy Hook.  They want to regulate (preferably to death) gun and ammunition manufacturers, but resist ANY further restrictions on abortion providers.  The incongruity in these demanded responses is worthy of ridicule, but no laughing matter, because it IS a matter of life & death.  

SunnyLife
SunnyLife

@CaballeroSerio And if said woman will DIE if she cannot abort the baby? Or perhaps cannot afford treatment if something "say misscarrage" goes wrong during the pregancy?

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@gomerwumphf 

If it is your pregnancy I will not interfere with your right to keep or abort the pregnancy

If it is my pregnancy what I do is my own damned business and you twits would rather force women to term at gunpoint

nainshushunderu
nainshushunderu

@AlanGravitt Yeah, for people like you.  According to you, pregnant women deserve fewer rights than anyone born.  That's 'timing' for you.  However, as was suggested in the article earlier, this is not about abortion.  Because Gosnell killed those who were NOT using someone else organs without permission to survive. WHOOPS.

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@JimDunbar  They provide a satisfactory (for their purposes) service to HALF of their clients. The other half die.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@BSullivan 

If it is not your pregnancy who gives you the right to dictate what another may do with their own damned business?

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@pocketnunu See that is where it gets difficult. Most abortions are preformed on blacks. The left wants everyone to believe they are against racism, but yet they condone the killing of mostly black babies in poor neighborhoods. The right is against abortion and does not want any babies killed... black, white or other. This is difficult for the left because on one hand they sing the praises of supporting and loving minorities while calling the right racist... but who is the real racist? Those who want all babies to live, or those who plant abortion clinics in poor minority areas? Since the media is completely left... they don't know how to report it or what to do with it, so they ignore it if they can't make it make them look better.

PLUS we have to realize that many of the left in office (Eric Holder's wife for example) are invested, heavily, in abortion clinics and buildings. The government also funds PP to the tune of over $500 million a year. Plus, Obama has made it mandatory to offer abortion services in health care...I wonder if he is getting a kick back for that from PP? 

We will never be given the truth by any main stream media outlet. You have to look for the info yourself and try to find unbiased reporters. VERY hard.

Me? I am Libertarian. 

DutchJameson
DutchJameson

@YesterdaysWine @YesterdaysWine uh, newsflash genius.  the serial murder of infants in a poor inner city neighborhood is not the same as your everyday drive by.  It is, by any measure, sensational, hyper newsworthy, and the ideology stunted 30 something women that populate our newsrooms made a decision based on collective arrogance.  they don't report the news, they censor it, based on its conformity to their ideological mission.  they should be fired, to a one, for professional misconduct and dereliction of duty.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@jbliquid 

Funny because I always thought that Pro-lifers have their heads up their butts

DelilahsDaddy
DelilahsDaddy

@Wild_Horses 

Pro-choice is NOT the same thing as pro-abortion. My wife and I are both pro-choice, but we would never in a million years have even consider abortion, despite being in college, being in a financially not so great place, and my having just been diagnosed with terminal, inoperable brain cancer. I do NOT believe in abortion, but I do not believe that the government has ANY business telling its citizens what we can or cannot do with our bodies, whether it is abortion or discontinuing end of life care or even "death with dignity", aka assisted suicide. When the pain from my tumor becomes nothing but excruciating 24/7 and I don't recognize my family, I want the option to prevent my daughter from having to see me like that and have me not recognize her. Will I go through with it when the time comes? Who knows, but the government has no business making that choice for me.

What his man did was wrong, but using his felonious actions as political ammunition is ridiculous and wrong.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

Mary you should know better than this...

Anybody who has ever had an abortion has feelings of guilt and remorse along with horror.... nobody finds it fun, merely necessary.

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@nainshushunderu @AlanGravitt  You are completely ignoring the fact that a person is being killed. A human baby who is  being cut up and sucked out, burned alive, or delivered and mutilated. Abortion is selfish and inhumane. The baby should have the most basic right... to be allowed to live. 

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@Hadrewsky @jbliquid  Did you not read the articles and see the images we all saw?  Maybe you should look again. Abortion is horrific.

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@DelilahsDaddy @Wild_Horses 

But you are making that choice in YOUR OWN life. The baby is not given a choice. That is where the fight comes in. Your not thinking the government should be involved is like telling them they cant tell us not to  kill people. Turning your head and saying that its not form e, but you go on and do what you want is ignoring the death of millions of babies every year. This is what happened in many civil atrocities over the years. Blacks, women, jews, gays.. etc. If its wrong, its wrong and we should not say... well OK as long as I don't have to do it or see it.

We pay more attention to the rights of animals than we do to the rights of our babies.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@lovelife @Hadrewsky @MaryJohnson

@lovelife

Because Humans ARE IRRATIONAL.
Just because it is not a human life in my opinion does not make me giddy over the prospect of performing one..... If I were to perform one i would be horrified even WITH my beliefs.
People have irrational attachments all the times and this is a case where that can be very traumatic.... I DO NOT think of a FETUS as a life up until 6-7 months and ill allow exceptions past that.
But I am not a monster and the practice is horrifying but NECESSARY and NOBODY has the right the prevent you from carrying out your rights and I would never interfere with another's rights for some stupid babble religion, creed, or sense of outrage.... you be the one to point a gun at a woman's head to force her to term or into a back-alley clinic

lovelife
lovelife

@Hadrewsky @MaryJohnsonHadrewsky, you said that a fetus is not a human until at least 7 months, then you said that, and I quote, "Anybody who has ever had an abortion has feelings of guilt and remorse along with horror....nobody finds it fun, merely necessary."  Why would anyone have feelings of guilt, remorse, or even horror if it is not a human being they are destroying? If a person really believes that it is a mass of tissue, shouldn't they be guilt free?

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson-

Indeed Terry Schiavo was just a breathing corpse... her parents wouldnt do what was required.

If you have no frontal cortex you are just a meat statue..... why the hell should anyone be protected in they are incapable to BEING human other than a bag of flesh...... Terry was a bag of flesh that had died long before.


ALL YOU ARE IS YOUR FRONTAL CORTEX - IF I TAKE IT FROM YOU, YOUR BEING CEASES TO EXIST.

^^^^^^Read the above and seriously think about why somebody without a brain deserves defending.



MaryJohnson-
MaryJohnson-

For a smart guy, you are not making a good case for yourself. (this is strictly your opinion since science states otherwise)

So to you anyone with incomplete brain function is not human or a human being? Terri Shiavo was not a human being? She was not merely breathing, she was actually moving and making faces and her eyes were open. But since she was not able to think rationally and normally... She is not human? I do not agree. She did not turn into another species or stop being human at any point.

More importantly, the babies are complete in this case. They have brains and are able to learn. They have pain and they are alert. Just because they are babies without speech, they do not lose their genetic code. They are human babies. All babies are born without memory... Or so we assume. Your argument is extremely flawed. Babies born at less than 7 months have survived and grown to be happy and healthy adults. There is no brain destruction in these babies... Only growth. It takes quite some time for a newborn, even at full term, to "process concrete data". Do you have children? Have you watched a baby grow and learn?

LauraKaye
LauraKaye

So are you saying this fleshy human like substance with a beating heart is some sort of alien and not a human being? You must be a soulless person to think like this. My 4 children were babies from the very start not just something that resembles a human. What mothers and doctors do to kill baby is non human and will have to answer to those babies and tell God why they didn't feel that the child had value.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

I go to very controversial extremes on the mentally handicapped... I consider any person able to feel joy, sadness, and love to be a human being.... any human brain without a frontal cortex is not human in my opinion.

If I were to slice out your frontal cortex you would cease to exist because *you* are merely that scrap of brain tissue.... 

persons with merely an active brain stem allowing them to breathe and have a heart beat are 'living corpses' ala Terry Schiavo - pulling her tubes should have been done long before that.

 My personal definition of a Human BEING is somebody who possesses a functioning frontal cortex.... it takes very little brain tissue destruction to render you a 'breathing corpse'

A fetus up until the 7th month or so has very little brain activity in the form of processing concrete data.... the fetus is merely a proto-BEING and not worthy of full protections.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

If the fetus aint viable it isnt a life.... if the fetus has the brain tissue of a goldfish it is NOT a human life

You are using you Religion's values to legislate morality based upon a terribly written book.

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@Hadrewsky @MaryJohnson 

That is your interpretation or opinion. At NO POINT after conception is the fetus or baby NOT a human genetically. What you consider to be a human life is not what I consider a human life. Mentally handicapped people do not have the brain power you suggest is needed to consider them human. What are they then?

A fetus is made of human flesh, blood, organs, DNA, hair, bones, fingernails, etc and as such, is indeed a human being.

The stage of development is also up for debate. Is a woman more human than a 2 year old because she is in a more advanced stage?

What if I said that no one deserves to be killed at any stage no matter who believes  it is wrong?

Honestly, science is on the pro-life side. The pro-death side only has personal desires to hang on to for argument. It is legal now, but it will not be for much longer. This trial is showing, publicly, what we pro-life advocates have been saying for years.The pro-death stance is fading and many are changing their minds. Death is death no matter what stage; fetus or born baby, infant, toddler, child, tween, teen, adult, middle aged, and elderly. Its all ending a heart beat, its all ending a life, its all death.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

A fetus does not count as a human life in that even up until 7 months the fetus has the brain power of a rabbit... being human means being able to think and feel like a human, a fetus is made out of human flesh but is not a human being

The mother on the other hand is a fully developed being that deserves protection to do even abortion no matter how much another feels it is wrong.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@PatrickMiller


I agree that you have the right to own the weapon of your choice....


Im pro-choice AND Pro-gun - aint i a rare breed?

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson @PatrickMiller @Hadrewsky 

as for your second point about a delivered baby versus and aborted baby.... you have a real pickle there that I suggest is decided by the Mother, Doctor, and Father alone.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

Mary that is a tough issue that should be between the Mother, Doctor, and hopefully the Father... abortion should be the right of these persons and these persons alone without anybody forcing anybody to have a baby at gunpoint.

Within the next 2 years I will have a medical license and should abortion be made illegal I will practice them myself illegally because I believe so strongly in the rights of the mother to self determination... we both know I dont consider a fetus a Human BEING, but I sure as well would find such a job filthy and repugnant to the point of vomiting every day.

No matter how awful I feel abortion is I feel the right to have one is greater than my own will to avoid horror.

MaryJohnson
MaryJohnson

@PatrickMiller @Hadrewsky @MaryJohnson 

I am not talking about mere differing opinions.

Gun control is a direct hit against our constitution. It specifically states we have the right to bare arms. It does not, however, state that we have the right to kill another human being for the sake of our own convenience.

Some where the lines were crossed and generations of people have been brainwashed to believe that fetuses are not humans. Science clearly disproves this opinion and this trial shows the clear and intentional killing of babies who are not being protected simply because the mother does not want the baby. It is absolute murder. There is no way around it. 

If a woman is given a induction and the baby is born... how many seconds or minutes is allowed to pass where she can legally kill the baby and not be prosecuted? How about the doctor? How does the mother's desire for the baby determine its human value? 

Why is a 6 month old fetus born in an abortion clinic less human than a preemie 6 month old fetus born in a hospital? Please explain.

PatrickMiller
PatrickMiller

@Hadrewsky @MaryJohnson So what you're saying is any one with a differing opinion shouldn't be able to force that opinion onto others? So I guess there should be no gun control    because I don't agree with it and you shouldn't force your beliefs on me.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

I agree that it is horrific and would never use such services.

But I will not stick a gun to the heads of others to force them to term or into back alley abortion clinics.... Pro-life means that you feel you have the right to hold others at gunpoint to do as you please.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@MaryJohnson

a 5 month old fetus has the cognitive ability of a frog at best... what you call a baby I call human tissue that is not yet a Human BEING