Vegetarians May Live Longer

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In one of the largest studies to date, researchers from Loma Linda University in California report that vegetarians outlast meat eaters.

Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. The effect held true for other specific vegetarian diets, according to the study, which is published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine. For instance, vegans also had a lower risk of death compared to nonvegetarians.

(MORE: It’s Not Just the Fat: There’s Another Way Red Meat May Harm the Heart)

Vegetarian diets have been linked in prior research to a lower likelihood of developing chronic diseases like heart disease or diabetes, but the underlying mechanisms are still under investigation. “We can’t tell from this current paper with certainty, but one of the most plausible potential reasons contributing to this beneficial association is perhaps the absence or reduction of meat intake,” says Dr. Michael J. Orlich, the program director of the preventive-medicine residency at Loma Linda University.

Red meat has been fingered as a potential culprit because of its high levels of saturated fat and cholesterol, which can clog up arteries. In April, another study found that the compound carnitine, also found in red meat, is metabolized by human-gut bacteria and fills up blood vessels.

While there is a fair amount of evidence linking red-meat consumption to higher mortality, other factors could also be at play. “It could also be that consumption of various plant foods may be beneficially associated with reduced mortality, so we definitely want to look at those things on the food level in the future,” says Orlich.

Interestingly, the investigators also found that the association between vegetarian diets and lower mortality was greater in men than in women. Men had a lower rate of cardiovascular disease and death from heart-related conditions. Women did not have the same measurable reductions.

(MORE: Gut Bugs: They Are What You Eat)

“I don’t have any strong speculations, but it could be that the diet is playing out differently due to biological factors in men and women,” says Orlich, who plans to look deeper into what specific foods and nutrients may be responsible for the association. Figuring out what drives the link is complex, and it could be different for various groups and individuals. For example, a British study of the vegetarian diet in over 47,250 participants did not find the same mortality results. The fact that American vegetarians consume more fiber and vitamin C could be the reason, and this underscores the need for better understanding of how diet impacts longevity.

154 comments
Papparocket
Papparocket

This is an old story, but linked to by a current story, so I wanted to post some information about Gary Taubes, who is ment

Son-ofMan
Son-ofMan

I became a vegetarian for moral reasons, so the health benefits are incidental to my decision.


But, there is a fairly significant body of evidence which supports statistically significant health benefits and longevity for vegetarians (see, for instance http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/526S.full ). Some of the studies do try to eliminate the effects of the generally healthier habits of vegetarian populations.


What amazes me is the "Tea Party"-like vehemence of those defending meat-based diets, by selectively (and sometimes stupidly) picking bits and pieces of evidence to support their choices (yes, you are likely to lose weight if you stop eating bread and munch on steak all day, but it will not make you much healthier in the long run).


As far as "organic" or free-range meats, there is no real evidence that these are significantly healthier, as far as I am aware. More importantly, the animal that was killed for that organic steak did not suffer or experience less terror during its slaughter, just like you would not be happy to be murdered and made into steaks after spending a few years in the fields.

mrxexon
mrxexon

I've been a vegetarian over 30 years. No meat, fish, or eggs. And in that time, I've never converted a single person. And this is despite them witnessing the superb state of health I have.

They enjoy my cooking. But at the same time, the social imprint upon them is to eat meat. You can't escape it. TV burger wars all the way down to KFC. EAT MEAT.

I've made a mockey of the food pyramid for decades. I urge you to step outside the box and experience a physical state you didn't know you were capable of.


x

iceman1
iceman1

Holy moly! I read through some of this blog. People do take offense on anyone making comments about their diets. Fact and we all know that:: The American diet is full of corn syrup, sugars, salts, chemicals, refined carbohydrates etc.. I eat only healthy, chemical free, organic foods. Why, because I believe that these are better for ME. It now does happen to include animal protein but I was vegetarian prior to very recently. Why was I vegetarian, because I then believed that it was better for ME. I don't try to change anyone's mind about how what they eat just that it should be the most wholesome, as unprocessed as possible food. Make the healthier choices, whether it's all vegetarian, all animal protein,  or a combination of any and every type of diet. But, if chips and dips is your forte, enjoy! Each one of us has to do what we feel is right for number one, not for the next person.  So if you are vegetarian or a confirmed meat eater, it doesn't, or shouldn't matter to anyone else but you. I have been researching health topics, diet, and types of food for almost 50 years! My decision to do what was right for me happened after the "latest article" said now we can eat eggs, or fats, or so on and so forth. I decided right then and there that I had enough information to make a decision for myself-one with which I would be comfortable as to how to eat. I wasn't any better physically as a vegetarian, my blood work was still not to my liking or my doctor's,and I hated being heavier than I had been before I was vegetarian. No, I didn't survive on pasta and bread!  Finally I was turned on to a couple of books which I mentioned previously. The "Good Calories-Bad Calories" book did it for me. I believe, no one else has to, and I won't try to change your beliefs, but I believe that yes we have been fed a bunch or mumbo jumbo when it comes to what the "food pyramid" should be and that studies have not seen the light of day that would make a difference.  According to this book, we have a number of hormones but only one, insulin, stores fat on the body. The more refined carbohydrates one eats, the more corn syrup or sugar one ingest, creates the situation in which one can become insulin resistant. According to this author one could eat a diet in the thousands of calories of carbohydrates and not be satisfied. I understand this!. I hated being hungry on the "balanced diets". The ones where whole grains filled 25% of my plate, protein another 25%, vegetables another 50%.  In no time I would be hungry again. I have found that a carbohydrate restricted diet works best for ME. I don't know about anyone else reading this entry but it's right for ME! For you it might be ice cream and jello or subs and beer. But for ME low carbohydrates works. I'm not hungry any longer! I've lost weight! I'm more energetic than I have been in a long time! I think more clearly! I joke and laugh again!  Understand this is what works for ME. My carbohydrates come from minimal fruit, and whatever non starchy vegetables I want. I do have some whole grains, and I limit myself to 4 eggs a week. Now you ask why? Because I'm still brain washed into thinking that too many eggs, or too much of this or that is harmful! Now let's see, I think we've been coerced into thinking low fat is better than a full fat version of something, that sugar free is better than sugar, even though our body reacts about the same with either. Thank you I eat unadulterated foods. 

I looked at how much I've written and apologize. I probably could have summed it all up by saying just do what's right for you! 

Everyone, enjoy life. We only go around once, I think! But that's probably another hot button!!LOL.

4AnimalsGoVegan
4AnimalsGoVegan

I have been a vegan for 15 years, was a vegetarian before that. My older sister, mom and now my husband has also become a vegan. All but two of my closest friends have also gone vegan. The other two are vegetarians. We did it for the animals. No animal deserves to suffer for ones appetite. However, even though we did it for the animals we are reaping the benefits. I am at a perfect weight of 124 pounds and eat as much as I want. I do not have any health conditions, nor do any of my friends that I mentioned earlier. You truly are what you eat. You cannot trust any of these large corporations especially Monsanto. They put loads of garbage as fillers in everything. Wheat is also another issue. It is killing people, you probably have never noticed it, but wheat is in just about everything even gum! Do a Google search for Wheat Belly Doctor Oz to find the video about wheat. It will change your mind and for the better.  So when people say going vegetarian can help you live longer, I say go vegan live longer than that and save 150+ innocent animals lives every year. That is doing something good for you and the environment.  Want info on becoming a vegan search Google for free Vegan starter kit. Get lots of cool stuff just for the asking. Cheers!

iceman1
iceman1

I am so tired of the eat this don't eat that conversation that I want to puke-oh wait I can lose weight doing that!! And live longer??? I mean , after all, I am reducing the calories I an digesting!!! I was vegetarian, but not vegan, for about 6 years. I finally changed from that to eating healthy foods as I want. No chemicals at all. Everything is organic foods and grass fed beef. I understand that humans are short on omega 3's. I've increased those by eating walnuts, walnut oil, grass fed beef- a little, maybe 4 oz. a week. I am a meat hater, never liked it, so going vegetarian was easy for me. I recently read: "wheat Belly;" "The Vegetarian Myth", and "Good Calories-Bad Calories". I recommend the last book. One will find out all the theories that have been shoved down our throats-no pun intended! As a vegetarian I was very aware of getting enough proteins, fats, carbs and nutrients like calcium. I haven't gone overboard on eating animal proteins but, as I said, it's chemical free like all the rest of my foods. I do believe that hybred foods, GMO's, chemicals are detrimental to our health. I don't eat refined carbs, sugars, drinks etc. of any kind. My advice is to read everything you can and then make your own choices. I'm tired of others trying to get me to one side of the fence or the other. I'm walking down the line in the middle of the road and I'm much happier for it.  I just can't pay attention to one more study! Read Good Calories-Bad Calories and it just may help to open people's eyes. It's a thick-400 pages or so- book and about scientific studies and how we have come to believe in the cholesterol packed red meat scare. One finds that it's OK to eat animal proteins as long as they aren't raised the traditional way. Yes it's more expensive but I feel either you pay the money for your food or your pay the doctor! Enjoy

janet_baker76
janet_baker76

This propaganda gets so old. "May live longer," "might help you lose weight," "could make your boyfriend marry you...."

In case no one has noticed, they are doing a great job of turning us into Chinese slaves, wage-wise, and dissing animal products is part of the strategy. My grandbaby almost died because Mom read this kind of crap and became a vegetarian during the pregnancy, and developed toximia, the direct result of insufficient protein. Amino acids are incredibly complex and it's just a lie that any combo of plant products 'replaces' them ("might replace," sorry). Tell me about increased longevity in India, where diabetis is raging due to a diet overbalanced with carbs. Our own obesity epidemic is being fueled by fat-and-protein-starved people eating too much fruit!

Do not believe this crap. Read Gary Taubes.

johnakim.lucien
johnakim.lucien

It is common knowledge vegetarians will have a better quality of life than meat eaters. Their life expectancy is also longer than meat eaters. This is all because of the original diet God has given us. However, it is up to everyone to choose.

WendyDann
WendyDann

I am a Vegan who already know about this information.  The writer of this article is not a good writer neither is the proof reader. 

Quote "vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. " We all have a 100% risk of death.  I have a 100%.  A smoker obese person has 100%.

Another qoute "For instance, vegans also had a lower risk of death compared to nonvegetarians."  We will all die!

I am not a professional writer but I know tghe facts are that Vegans and Vegetarians have a LONGER life expectancy and are less likely to have health problems such as High Blood Pressure and High Chloresterol.  But my "risk of death" is not a "risk" it is just a fact of life that we all we die.

joestuffsda
joestuffsda

Meat death.  Vegetarians die young at an older age.

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

Eisensteinian physics tells us that time is relative to the speed at which you move through it.  Carnivorous generally move faster than herbivores, therefore time slows down for them.

Vegetarians are herbivores and don't have the ready energy of carnivores, therefore move slower and time passes more quickly for them.

In a relativistic sense, both probably live for the same amount of time.

And, frankly, I've always thought that vegans didn't actually live longer.  It only seems that way to them.  Either way, I think I'd rather live a short time and enjoy it than live a long time feeling as miserable as I feel when I just eat veggies.

aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

Lower risk of "death"? From any cause? Because that's...not how you do any sort of trial. You're looking not for longevity, but for age-adjusted mortality from certain causes (that is, weighing a heart attack at 40 greater than one at 90). As well as quality of life issues, since a number of chronic diseases are plenty nasty before they kill you.

In general, these studies run into the fact that other observational studies have the other side of it. The classic study in favor of vegetarianism was a study of Seventh-Day Adventists. But other studies of Mormons found the reverse.

mkb
mkb

Energy can not be created or destroyed, this is true in case of humans. Energy in the from of glucose, proteins and fats we consume is trapped inside for ever.

Energy has to be spent by means of activities. Body spend one calories per minute for basal metabolic rate to sustain the body living. The excess calories are burnt when we walk or work hard. If you want to reduce the weight spend more energy or cheat your brain about the consumption of energy even though you are not.

Pl fallow 

http://mkbperfecthealth.blogspot.in/


Want to spend more energy pl fallow my invnetion

http://www.ebay.in/itm/230991239756?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649#ht_940wt_1139

dwdlprslmd
dwdlprslmd

I also think its strange that people get so caught up in this but just in terms of the study as a study, to those that say that could it be that vegetarians are more health conscious- I think the paper does a decent job at picking a cohort that tends to have similar lifestyles, they also exclude those that eat to much or to little. 

Also it is true that you can't prove causation with an observational study. But that doesn't mean that they aren't useful one of the most famous observational studies was the first study of any kind to discover the risk of smoking. With this study you can find Incidence rates, calculate all cause mortality, and the hazard ratio between vegetarian and non vegetarians which is the 12 percent referred to in the paper. It means that vegetarians have a 12 percent decrease in mortality for an given unit of time. It kind of like if you have someone with coronary artery disease and someone who doesn't standing next to each other. At any given moment the person CAD has an increased chance of mortality because they could throw a clot and get a heart attack.  

And lastly people make the quality of life argument a lot and honestly a great number of people you see in hospitals these days are people who are obese, hypertensive, diabetic, stented X#, with a large balloon heart that isn't doing much. The American diet causes this and its sad that so much of this could be fixed if they ate less meat and carbs. Is it really a better quality of life when you eat like this and then one day you throw a clot get ischemic heart disease and cant do anything really active for the rest of your life? and this is not the obese diabetic patient, this is an average middle aged man eating an average American diet.



CathyCoonBitikofer
CathyCoonBitikofer

Since being diagnosed as a diabetic (heredity and bad eating habits leading to obesity), I've been more diet-conscious. The ADA recommends no more than 6 ounces of lean meat a day for someone like me, and stack up the rest of my plate with healthy carbohydrates like fruits, veggies and whole grains, and try to throw in fish twice a week, if I choose to consume meat.

I find the tone of this dialogue between pro- and anti-meat eaters to border on the ridiculous. I guess that's the direction of most comment threads.  Why does discussing the subject of food become such an emotional one, degrading to name-calling on both sides?  Gosh, we're feeling personal about our diets. No one's looking over your shoulder. People criticize what you eat? Blow it off. Life's too short anyway.

That said, there have been numerous studies related to diet and health.  I guess my choice would be to be in the best possible health as long as I'm living.  Insofar as I can control it, I'm gonna try. Not going to be perfect, but I don't want a stroke, heart attack, or diabetes to turn me into someone who can no longer make her own choices, and is that disabled person in the nursing home or on dialysis in her 50's or 60's.  

What is important is to monitor your health in terms of cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. and make changes if the numbers don't look good to you or your doctor.  You could have diabetic stroke in your 30's, and crash your car, like the brother of a friend. He survived, but couldn't drive for a year. It's never to early to keep track of your health. 

DanDiego
DanDiego

Hmmm... could it be that vegetarians/vegans are simply more health conscious? Live an active lifestyle, watch what they eat in general? I believe it is much less about whether you choose to be vegetarian or not and much MORE likely to be the lifestyle you live overall.

JasonYGuy
JasonYGuy

I rather eat a nice 1'1/4 rib eye cooked medium rare, with a nice salad and have real bacon with my eggs for breakfast and live to be 70 or 80, rather than eat leaves, shrivel up and live miserably to be 90 or worse a 100. Just my opinion, but to each his own.

mentallect
mentallect

I don't eat meat much because I hate how it makes my body feels.  While many people around me are overweight meat lovers, I am in great shape, have no medical problems.  They only thing I am taking are a daily multivitamin.  My body fat is 5%, and people wonder how I do it?  Its not hard.  I am also glad my health insurance premiums are low as well.  Although we can all die in an automobile accident, or a tornado, I prefer to treat my body as a temple like the Lord says. 

But if people enjoy their lives eating an abundance of meat, let them.  Darwin was right after all.


jpkarnes
jpkarnes

All it takes is to visit a nursing home to see the carnage wrought by our western diet.  It's not longevity I seek with my vegan diet, it's HEALTHY aging I'm after.

DavidWhite
DavidWhite

Eating meat is bad for your health, you know?

Naw, my grandmother lived to be 100.

Eating meat!?

Minding her own damn business!

DavidWhite
DavidWhite

They only live longer if they stay out of my face and stop yelling at me. The ones that can't mind their own business will find themselves being fed to my food.

VijayBanga
VijayBanga

I agree and all the good looking vegetables like Tomatoes,egg plants, leeks, cucumber, carrots will also protect from Motor accident, plane crash, Tornado, Tsunami related and so many other kinds of death.Meats and fish taken in reasonable quantities,  also alcohol and not cigarettes will do no harm. I do not see how can any specific study on foods leads to the conclusion that one line of products are good while others used since man was born are not good. Real life shows affluence, peace of mind, comforts and disease free people have better quality of life but something can increase the age is not sane.

JHL
JHL

But they have to be vegetarians. Is that the trade-off and why is it worth it? Again living life as a vegetarian.

Enelson1717
Enelson1717

I thought that The China Studay by Dr T Colin Campbell, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Dr Caldwell Esselstyn, Dr Jeff Novick's work, The Engine 2 Diet, My Beef with Meat, etc.  have already done numerous studies showing results similar if not, better than what this article reports?  I believe that there are also published medical journal works with various studies of this sort with results that do not include the word "may".  Remember eating meat is your choice, ignorance is bliss, and what works for one person does not work for the next. 

jakeragnarwiborg
jakeragnarwiborg

T. Colin Cambell did this research in the so-called "China Study" thirty years ago. These researchers are behind the times and don't seem focused. A plant-based diet shows a strong correlation with a reduction in major cancers and heart disease. Less meat in the diet has the same, albeit less pronounced, affect. It hasn't been a mystery for quite some time.

WendyDann
WendyDann

I have been a Vegetarian for 23 years and Vegan for 9.  In that time have have inspired many people to go Vegetarian or Vegan, including my husband.  I do not say "converted" I like "inspired" and "assisted" the people.  The ting is to be there for people that are interested in the lifestyle but don't know how.  They might need their hand held to make the step.

GeetaIvalueprivacy
GeetaIvalueprivacy

@iceman1 I agree.  I seldom eat meat as it hardly ever cooked by my mom, a consequence of my mom's side of the family being meat (chicken and goat) eater's and my dad's side being vegetarian.  If we did eat meat, it was more of a side dish amount with lots of veggies.  My brothers ended up becoming vegetarian in their early teens after chowing down on KFC and rotisserie chicken and chasing my around the house with the bones.  My, the 'my meat must be boneless skinless or I'm not eating it' is a sometimes chicken and pork eater but I'm mostly stick with a vegetarian diet mixed with seafood once in a while.

 The trick, like you said, is to eat healthy.  No 1000 calorie meals, no corn syrup crap whether it is vegetarian or non-vegetarian.  I once pointed out to my now 30-something vegetarian brothers that I eat more vegetables and fruits than they do.  It caused them to improve their diets from all the crap they were eating.

There's nothing like having a fresh salad with every meal, and maybe making it the main course.  What's wrong with small amounts of brown rice or brown whole wheat pasta instead of white?  Water instead of  sodas?  Nuts instead of a chocolate bar as a snack?  I can't stand farmed fish or mass-produced meat so I'll pay more and eat simply prepared 3oz portions of wild salmon or ahi tuna or grain-fed and raised organic chickens raised humanely instead of eating more meat but less quality slathered in corn-syrup sauces.

BTW, there's more healthy omega 3 in flax seeds and walnuts than in salmon.  Farm-raised salmon has less omega 3 than wild.

Educate yourself about your food and don't buy into the hype about all vegetarians/vegans look sickly just because someone you know is eating a weird crap diet.  I have tons of family members who are vegetarians who lived a long fun-filled and active live until their 90s.  I also have tons of family members who are non-vegetarians who ate organic chickens and goat who lived until their 90s but that's also because they ate lots of greens (bitter salad greens found growing in the wild, dandelion greens, mustard greens, etc) and vegetables such as bitter melon.  Both sides ate a handful of walnuts and almonds every day and drank milk and ate yogurt.

A chocolate bar or a bad meal won't kill you; but use the 80/20 rule.  Eat smart 80% of the time, and eat whatever you want 20% of the time.

MarcStanleyExRel
MarcStanleyExRel

@janet_baker76 Some of us are not really human, nor originate from this planet, and have to eat flesh and drink blood to feel vitalized. Your families blood line could be one of them.

GeetaIvalueprivacy
GeetaIvalueprivacy

@janet_baker76  Dear Janet:  Tons of babies are born to living moms in India every year without the mom dying because there's lots of protein in milk, yogurt, cheese, nuts, and lentils.  Indians have several genes which make them predisposed to Type II diabetes, while the protective genes that prevent Caucasians from getting Type II diabetes don't work for Indians.  The urban (richer) areas that now have access to fast food and are eating more meat and drinking more alcohol have an est. diabetes rate of 9% vs the rural (poorer) areas that are eat traditional (which is more likely to be vegetarian depending on region) food which have an est. diabetes rate of 3%.  These facts and opinions were pulled from diabetes.co.uk and diabetes.org and are easily obtainable through google.

 It is ironic but as India gets richer and as people of Indian origin deviate from vegetarian diets for a variety of different reasons, they are literally killing themselves.  The number of filthy rich Indians in their 20s and 30s who are suffering from heart attacks is phenomenal and not in a good way.  Too rich a diet in meat and alcohol is killing them.

But, hey, if you want to believe that obesity is being caused by people in the U.S. eating too much fruit (LMAO!) be my guest.

DJS
DJS

@joestuffsda  really. tell that to my cousin who was RAISED vegetarian and is now terminally ill with breast cancer at a young age.

JaredBork
JaredBork

Almost completely junk. But Americans really are clueless for the most part about food, not even worth the time explaining how were not dinosaurs or whatever creature you're trying to relate the most complex and intelligent life form on earth. But it's k.

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@mkb mkb, your analogies are not analogous to each other.   In excess, glucose is readily passed from the body unused.  Proteins and fats as well.

The creation or destruction of energy depends on a closed system.  The human body is far from a closed system.  It generates energy and expels energy through the mechanism of metabolism - which isn't a "base" and varies depending on many factors including position (someone upright uses more energy than someone laying flat).

It's pretty obvious you know next to nothing about physiology, and your post was a blatant plug (AKA Spam).  But at least you proved you didn't know what you were talking about in your post, so those who might have otherwise been tempted will know better than to visit your site.

aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

Very much so. I could do a study of people who take homeopathic medicine (i.e., pure water) and compare them to smokers.

In addition, being a vegetarian by definition is going to create a placebo effect, since the last 30 years of dietary advice have been aimed at getting us to eat more carbohydrate. One who behaves in a supposedly healthy manner (even if the practice has no significant effect) will experience a placebo effect.

I will say, the foods a lot of vegetarian diets recommend fall into woo. Soy is a big one, but there's really not that much difference. (Seriously, does anyone have any idea what 25 g of soy protein is? PROTIP: Nobody except a food faddist eats that much.) Coconut is really high in saturated fat, as is palm oil-based margariane, but they're marketed as a superfood, not realizing the word "superfood" is our description of the fallacy. (Also, tropical fruit has a lot of miles on it. So much for caring about global warming.)

Sad as it is, just eating fewer calories would have the most benefit.

aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

Yeah, you might still want to limit total carbohydrate. Just to avoid, you know, your blood sugar going off.

But basically, monitor things. Get an electronic sphygmomanometer. Get tested for cholesterol every five years, and watch your weight.

george.basham
george.basham

Agreed and the more important issue, especially for your situation, is eliminating grains and simple carbohydrates.

MaryMitch
MaryMitch

I think you can do both... I eat a lot less meat than I used to, and when I have a steak it is a real treat. But I could never be a vegetarian; it's too restrictive, and difficult besides. And nothing is more tedious than having a vegetarian constantly ask "do those beans have bacon in them?" Eat the damn beans!

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@mentallect This is actually something that isn't often mentioned and is completely ignored by virtually every nutritional study - that we're all individuals.

I know a couple who are vegans who raised two kids vegan.  They had a third kid and he failed to thrive.  The cure?  Much to their consternation - animal protein.  He apparently lacked an enzyme that digested the plant proteins they fed him.  He was a born carnivore. 

Some people do very well on plant matter alone.  Most don't and have a long and often rough transition to it.  Others can't tolerate it. It's less what's "good for you" as it is "What's good for YOU" as an individual.

But in all honesty, I have never met a "happy vegan".  They've all been obsessed about what they'll eat and take hours every day preparing for their meals. That is a commitment most people won't or can't make.  

 There's more to life than thinking about one's next meal.

tmstreet
tmstreet

@DavidWhite  You do realize that this is extreme use of anecdotal evidence, don't you?  

aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

Yeah, Harriet Hall (though I don't always agree with her) wrote a good critique of Campbell.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/385/

tl;dr: The Chinese in the provinces that eat less meat didn't live as long, so of course they're going to have fewer heart attacks. In addition, for all the pictures of active people, he never considered exercise as a possibility.

Campbell also claims diet is an effective treatment for melanoma (It isn't.) and supports the discredited Gerson protocol, which includes wonderful elements like coffee enemas.

Also, a study of only 100 people? Seriously?

In addition, Campbell offers a strawman argument demonstrating how a dietary requirement of 45~65% carbohydrate, 20~35% fat, and 10~35% protein can be met by 1 cup Froot Loops with 1 cup skim milk, 1 package M&Ms, and supplements for breakfast; a grilled cheddar cheeseburger for lunch; and 3 slices personal pizza, 16 oz of soda, and a couple Archway sugar cookies.

That is...not the idea. First, standard advice is to eschew supplements. In reality, you can find lots of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes in a recommended diet.

aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

Campbell used statistics fu
To advocate for vegan goo
But then I opened my eyes
And I was surprised
To learn that it was all woo

joestuffsda
joestuffsda

@DJS @joestuffsda  

Which would you rather have coming at you; a man with a gun or a man with a knife? GMO's, water, anything in the environment will cause problems in this sin sick world. Vegetarians die young at an older age because a plant based diet is in tune with our body system. The strongest animals in the world eat grain. Vegetarianism is not a panacea, it just forestalls the inevitable and gives a better life.

joesantus
joesantus

The usual cause-or-correlation question applies again.  Vegetarians are typically more health-proactive, so the real "cause" may be just that: being health conscious, not the vegetarianism per se. 

I'm a 57-year-old natural bodybuilder (meaning I'm, lifelong steroid-and-enhancement-drugs-free -- I'm part of the sub-genre of bodybuilding that remained natural when the mainstream went to steroids, prohormones, and growth factors beginning about 1960).  I've been into this lifestyle since age 16. My year-round daily eating includes large whole eggs (up to TEN daily), beef liver, lean beef, chicken, turkey, tuna, pork, shrimp, mackerel, cottage cheese, and greek yogurt; in otherwords, it's far from vegetarian.  I do also include nutrient-dense vegetables (eg spinach and broccoli and sweet potatoes) and fruit (eg kiwi and blueberries), as well as nuts (eg almonds) and seeds (eg sunflower) daily. I avoid hydrogenated oils and use olive and coconut oils.  I drink only filtered water, green tea, and brewed black coffee. I take absolutely NO vitamin/mineral supplements, but do use some wheat-germ oil and nutritional yeast.   

The results on my health? I have zero medical issues. My yearly physicals find levels of blood pressure, cholesterol, trigyceride, and so on that put me at NEGATIVE risk for coronary disease.  As I type, I weigh 161 pounds at 5'8" height.  I have a visible "washboard", but I'm not on male hormone replacement therapy.

My point isn't to promote my flavor of lifetyle, but simply to point out that I'm healthy not because of my diet per se but because I'm HEALTH-CONSCIOUS.  I monitor and am aware of my protein, fat, carb, and most importantly, my CALORIE intake.

I suspect it's not the vegetarianism that produces the better health -- rather, it's the being health conscious that does. Our genetics, our while-developing-in-the-womb conditions, and our childhood conditions largely set our potential longevity and health; but, to optimize our potentials requires active and proactive attention to what we eat (unfortunately!  hey, I'd like to be able to thrive on unlimited amounts of donuts and soda, too!)

DJS
DJS

@joestuffsda @DJS  " Which would I rather have coming running at me, a man with a gun or a  man with a knife?" 

Neither! Either one could kills me.

"The Strongest  animals in the world eat grain?" What does this have to do with what is best for humans?  

I am not interested in arguing with you or with anyone else.

Unforutnately, my cousin who ,along with her 2 siblings was raised Vegetarian from birth now has breast cancer. Being a vegetarian clearly did not protect her from that. Her Dr. has actually now told her to eat meat, and she is eating meat for the first time in her life. She doesn't want to eat meat, but if there is any chance that it will prolong her life, she is willing to eat it.

He also told her to abstain from Soy. As a vegetarian, soy had been a mainstay of her diet.,but Soy mimics estrogen,and increases breast cancer. risk., 

I am not looking to argue with you. I wish you all the best. truly. I am very upset about my cousin's illness. I wish vegetarianism had been able to protect her from breast cancer.  


aliberaldoseofskepticism
aliberaldoseofskepticism

What is "negative risk"? Like, risk less than zero? Is that even possible?

A lot of it varies. I eat a lot of meat, and my LDL cholesterol is unusually low. My systolic is usually in the double digits. But it could be my diet. Or genetics. Or that I go to the gym a lot and walk everywhere if I can. I can't say.