Nothing, Not Even Hard Facts, Can Make Anti-Vaxxers Change Their Minds

Researchers found a backlash effect when presented with scientific evidence that vaccines don't cause autism

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REUTERS/Valentin Flauraud

Maybe there should be a vaccine for stubbornness, because it sure seems tough to cure. A new study shows that when presented with four different scientifically proven arguments that vaccinations are safe, some anti-vaccination parents seemed even less inclined to innoculate their kids against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) once they saw the evidence.

“We shouldn’t overestimate how effective facts and evidence are in convincing people to accept a claim and change their behavior,” said Brendan Nyhan, who authored the study published in Pediatrics, “but throwing facts and evidence at them isn’t likely to be the most effective approach.”

Nyhan and his colleagues surveyed almost 1,800 parents of young children after seeing one of four vaccination messages similar to those provided by the CDC. The first messages were focused on conveying the dangers of measles, mumps, and rubella: the “Disease Risk” message detailed the medical risk of contracting MMR, the “Danger Narrative” told the story of a woman whose son contracted the measles from another child and got a 106-degree fever, and the “Disease Images” showed disturbing pictures of infected children. A fourth message, “Autism Correction,” provided heavy scientific evidence that disproved the link between vaccinations and autism.

All that sounds convincing, but none of it really works. The researchers found that none of the four messages significantly increased rates of intended vaccination (they only measured whether parents intended to vaccinate, not whether they actually did) and some even provoked an anti-vaccination backlash. The least successful messages were “Disease Narrative” and “Disease Images,” which actually increased the misconception that vaccinations will have negative side effects by 6%, and looking at the photos of the sick kids increased the subjects’ perception that vaccines cause autism. Nyhan said that he thought this was because when people saw children in distress, they became preoccupied with other dangers their child could encounter.

“Disease Risks” and “Autism Correction” had slightly better results, but neither seemed to convince parents. And while “Autism Correction” proved to some parents that there’s no link between vaccines and autism, it produced a strong backlash in others that just reinforced their sense that vaccinations are a conspiracy theory. Only 45% of the already anti-vaccine parents said they would vaccinate after they saw the “Autism Correction” message, compared to 70% of the control group.

Nyhan thinks that these parents are suspicious of the scientists and that the pro-vaccine movement is trying to pull a fast one on them. “People think, ‘what are they trying to convince me?’” he explained. “The ‘don’t worry, don’t worry, everything is safe’ approach is not often effective, because they think ‘why are they trying so hard to reassure me that everything is safe?’”

The fact that none of these messages were particularly effective is a little disconcerting considering that vaccinations only work if a majority of the population is vaccinated. And Nyhan also pointed out that these diseases are more dangerous than ever, because MMR is so rare that we almost never encounter them. Regardless, it seems that the CDC has a serious PR problem, since none of their pro-vaccination messages seem to actually convince people.

“We need to test the messages we use in public health the way we test other kinds of inventions,” Nyhan said. “There isn’t a crisis now, but this is about making sure we don’t have one.”

To see which states are vaccinating their kids, check out this helpful map from Mother Jones. 

109 comments
LowellHubbs
LowellHubbs

The truth is that the independent science shows that vaccines not only cause autism, but the whole lot more than just that. Wake up to the misinformation and the lies you have been fed.


Vaccine aluminum adjuvant causation of neuroglial activation and neuroinflammation in the brain of patients with autism.

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-aluminum-adjuvant-causation-of-neuroglial-activation-and-neuroinflammation-in-the-brain-of-patients-with-autism.html


The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm

http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html


Vaccination toxicity: The Zeta phase of MASS and “blood sludging”

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccination-toxicity-the-zeta-phase-of-mass-and-ldquoblood-sludgingrdquo.html


Vaccine Production With - Human Diploid Cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with---human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell---tissue.html

ChrisRobison
ChrisRobison

over 1000 studies from all around the world prove that vaccines have and do cause horrible adverse reactions-  please take a look at these two sites, if nothing else:  1. following vaccinations, 

2.  mednat  RACCOLTA di piu' di 1.000 studi sui DANNI dei VACCINI

andersog
andersog

I wonder why they aren't doing these articles when it comes to global climate change?  There is scientific evidence that is overwhelming that much of the current climate change is man made?  Where are all the articles calling people who deny climate change, or that it is man made, stubborn?  Not vaccinating only hurts those that don't.  If you want to vaccinate go ahead.  Yes, there are those that are too fragile to vaccinate but hey so are my autistic son and his siblings.

ChrisRobison
ChrisRobison

please do your own research!  you will see that critical information has been hidden from the public for generations...

Doctors and scientists on the staff of the National Institutes of Health during the 1950s were well aware that the Salk vaccine was causing polio. Some frankly stated that it was “worthless as a preventive and dangerous to take [26:142].” They refused to vaccinate their own children [26:142]. Health departments banned the inoculations [26:140]. The Idaho State Health Director angrily declared: “I hold the Salk vaccine and its manufacturers responsible” for a polio outbreak that killed several Idahoans and hospitalized dozens more [26:140]. Even Salk himself was quoted as saying: “When you inoculate children with a polio vaccine you don’t sleep well for two or three weeks [26:144;43].” But the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis, and drug companies with large investments in the vaccine coerced the U.S. Public Health Service into falsely proclaiming the vaccine was safe  and  effective [26:142-5].

In 1976, Dr. Jonas Salk, creator of the killed-virus vaccine used in the 1950s, testified that the live-virus vaccine (used almost exclusively in the U.S. from the early 1960s to 2000) was the “principal if not sole cause” of all reported polio cases in the U.S. since 1961 [44]. (The virus remains in the throat for one to two weeks and in the feces for up to two months. Thus, vaccine recipients are at risk, and can potentially spread the disease, as long as fecal excretion of the virus continues [45].) In 1992, the Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published an admission that the live-virus vaccine had become the dominant cause of polio in the United States [36]. In fact, according to CDC figures, every case of polio in the U.S. since 1979 was caused by the oral polio vaccine [36]. Authorities claim the vaccine was responsible for about eight cases of polio every year [46]. However, an independent study that analyzed the government’s own vaccine database during a recent period of less than five years uncovered 13,641 reports of adverse events following use of the oral polio vaccine. These reports included 6,364 emergency room visits and  540 deaths (Figure 3) [47,48]. Public outrage at these tragedies became the impetus for removing the oral polio vaccine from immunization schedules [

ChrisRobison
ChrisRobison

Well...   the FACTS show that vaccines are the primary cause for the skyrocketing rates of autism, allergies, ADD, asthma, etc..    there ARE numerous studies linking autism to vaccines..     there HAVE been billions paid out, quietly, to vaccine injured people (including autistic),  there ARE thousands and thousands of patient testimonials of immediate regression into autism after vaccination, there HAVE been scientists and doctors for generations who have tried to alert the world to these FACTS...    do your own research, and do not blindly trust the multi-billion dollar industries that must keep their damage and fraud hidden from the public..   ask yourself why the CDC refused Congressman Posey's requests to study vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated and why that story was hidden..   ask yourself why the Vaccine Compensation program's payouts to autistic children have been hidden...   ask yourself why the fact that multiple studies do show non-vaccinated kids are much healthier than vaccinated has been hidden..   why did Jonas Salk admit that the polio vaccine CAUSED a polio outbreak, and why was this hidden?   honest and innocent people DO NOT suppress information and put out propaganda pieces like this from the pro-corporate time magazine..

Skatergirlnyc
Skatergirlnyc

Our kids live in a world of pollutants, microwaves, wi-fi technology, radiation, non BPA plastics, antibiotics and growth hormones in food on the short list of environmentally common issues, but let's put the entire population at risk of deadly preventable diseases. 

Greisha
Greisha

Lot of comments here are the perfect illustration to the article.

DonnaL.Loveless
DonnaL.Loveless

It is ALL tied together..

"GMO its a contributor.. my child is vaccine injured, brain gut immune and metabolic injury sustained by vaccines she received as a child. 2.8 billion paid out in federal vaccine court to vaccine deaths and injury 83 cases to those vaccine induced autism. GMO contributes to the weakening of our genes, mutations and makes us more susceptible to injury, but its the toxins in vaccines that are injected and can and do immediately cause damage.. noone ate a gmo and woke up in seizures the next day. its all tied in yes. 49 doses of 14 vaccines by age of 6 for 2014 is INSANE! and TOXIC. ( 1980 total 8 vaccines by age 6 autism 1 in 10,000 ) 1 in 3 kids today are ILL or have some form of neurological or developmental disorder, we have the sickest generation ever! vaccines cause autism, from the horses mouth. your eyes will open and jaws drop but gov has KNOWN for DECADES vaccines cause autism and they know HOW and they COVERED it up! exposed now.. watch" .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4CwROrKG8A

brettcardella
brettcardella

My sister and brother in law are doubters of vaccination.  Personally, I can no longer talk to them.  They are nuts.  Home births (ending in the first birth at a hospital resulting in code blue emergency c-section), second birth at home.  Thank God all went well the second time around..  Breast feeding for years.  They do self lead weaning at 1 year...where they do not feed their children with a spoon.  They just throw hunks of food on their tray.They are extremists...absolutely no medical intervention.  I just found out that their children ages 2 and 5 are not vaccinated.  I was too scared to ask...This is pretty much the last straw.  If you want to endanger your family fine.  However, do not endanger your local community at the same time....This is not normal...it is immoral.

vgupta123
vgupta123

The vaccine industry and CDC have a big credibility problem when Julie Gerberding, the former director of CDC, becomes the president of Merck’s vaccine unit. Can you really trust CDC to evaluate vaccines thoroughly?

Also, developed countries that mandate far fewer vaccines have a lower infant mortality rate and a higher life expectancy than the US. 

kathyalten
kathyalten

I wonder how these paragons of parenting will feel when their children are paralyzed from Polio, or feel the efffects of other diseases unnecessarily. Unfortunately, herd immunity will be compromised, and disease will not be restricted to the children of the anti-vaccination crowd. Perhaps they shouldn't take advice from a woman whose IQ is smaller than her bra size.

kathyalten
kathyalten

It's too bad the anti-vaccination parents will kill herd immunity, and their children won't be the only ones to get polio, mumps, etc. I wonder how long they'll stick to their guns once their kids are hit with paralysis and other effects of diseases such as polio. Then they'll whine about how they were misled. Perhaps if they listened to people whose IQs aren't the same size as their bras they might learn something.

SelylJNala
SelylJNala

I see a lot of people who claim that certain chemicals in vaccinations are what cause these ailments such as autism and stuff. I'm going to paraphrase a comment that made a lot of sense to me on a different article.

Scientists who study this field of medicine use those ingredients for a multitude of purposes such as keeping the vaccine dormant or dead, preserving it, or enhancing its intended effect. Now some of the chemicals in larger doses would definitly not be beneficial but scientists who have STUDIED these chemicals for years use small amounts to ensure the vaccine does what it is supposed too. If you look up the chemicals that a lot of people quote, you will find the dosages are not enought to remotely harm a human being. So unless you've taken extensive chemistry and biology classes alongside med school sit down and shut up unless you have solid proof that the vaccines cause the mentioned symptoms and you better have a research paper and several other studies from other doctors who agree with you and concur on evidence.

JimboJonesIV
JimboJonesIV

Why is anyone surprised that reason and logic are not convincing to many people when so much of the world's population believes in religion, a demonstrably false and feebly supported fantasy? There must be some genetic component that suspends rational thought, and compels delusions to be accepted. Genetics will someday show the causes, but it will matter little to those so afflicted.

MaurineMeleck
MaurineMeleck

They have it all wrong in this article.  The reason for not vaccinating is because parents are finally educating themselves and finding that there are more and more sick children than ever with autism, ADHD, asthma, diabetes etc.  Seems nobody can give us an answer as to why this is happening  They only thing all these children all over the country have in common is vaccines--environmentally.  Until we have some answers and independent vaccine safety studies, more and more parents will stop vaccinating their children.  How about doing that fully  vaccinated vs fully unvaccinated study of children that has never been done?  Vaccine choice and parental consent.  We are never going away.

nrdavis
nrdavis

@DonnaL.Loveless  "It is ALL tied together."

Yes, indeed:: "Conspiracist ideation . . . predicts rejection of all three scientific propositions, albeit to greatly varying extents. Greater endorsement of a diverse set of conspiracy theories predicts opposition to GM foods, vaccinations, and climate science." 

Lewandowsky S et al. The role of conspiracist ideation and worldviews in predicting rejection of science. PLoS One. 2013 Oct 2;8(10):e75637

dd1972
dd1972

@brettcardella  They are nuts because they homebirth, practice extended breastfeeding (as children should be) and do babyled weaning? Are you for real dude? LMAO. They are better off with you not talking to them.

nrdavis
nrdavis

@vgupta123  Dr. Gerberding devoted her career to public service related to the scientific evidence that informed public policy related to vaccination. At the close of her extensive career in public service, do you think that she should completely ignore her real expertise and do something entirely different, like, say, opening a real estate or insurance office, working on a factory floor or as a migrant agricultural laborer, or moving to retail? If you were among the nation's preeminent experts in vaccines, would you have done? Open a McDonald's franchise.

IraEdwards
IraEdwards

The medical industry will have a  hard time with their case until their representatives know the science as well as most vaccine-refusing parents.

LowellHubbs
LowellHubbs

@SelylJNala  


Yes, actually I do have more science than the CDC has or will ever have, and it is mostly independent science, which is even better, when not connected to biased sources. 


Vaccine aluminum adjuvant causation of neuroglial activation and neuroinflammation in the brain of patients with autism.

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-aluminum-adjuvant-causation-of-neuroglial-activation-and-neuroinflammation-in-the-brain-of-patients-with-autism.html


The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm

http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html


Vaccination toxicity: The Zeta phase of MASS and “blood sludging”

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccination-toxicity-the-zeta-phase-of-mass-and-ldquoblood-sludgingrdquo.html


Vaccine Production With - Human Diploid Cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with---human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell---tissue.html


Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity


Conclusions/Significance


Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality.


http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0008382


Glutathione, Tylenol, Vaccine Adverse Reactions, and ASD

http://www.vacfacts.info/glutathione-tylenol-vaccine-adverse-reactions-and-asd.html


The CDC Claimed To Epidemiological Safety Studies – Verses – The Independent Physiological Vaccine Safety Science

http://www.vacfacts.info/the-cdc-claimed-to-epidemiological-safety-studies-ndash-verses-ndash-the-independent-physiological-vaccine-safety-science.html




MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@SelylJNala It's the "toxin gambit" - a means of scaring parents into thinking that constituents of vaccines are lethal.

smorr43
smorr43

@JimboJonesIV  

I am a Christian, who believes fully in medicine, science, and vaccination. I am also a PhD student, high school ministry leader, athlete, and socially active human being...what exactly does religion have to do with this? Uninformed people are listening to bloggers, and advocates for alternatives that are not realistic substitutes for vaccination, not the bible, Qur'an, etc. for making these decisions, they're listening to the culture.

The majority of people that I know who don't want to vaccinate their children do not land in my Christian community, anyway. Maybe open up your mind a bit, instead of making unfounded generalizations filled with sweeping accusations. 

Skatergirlnyc
Skatergirlnyc

@MaurineMeleck They also live in a world of pollutants, microwaves, wi-fi technology, radiation, non BPA plastics, antibiotics and growth hormones in food on a short list of environmentally common issues...  But let's put the entire population at risk of deadly disease instead. 

nrdavis
nrdavis

@MaurineMeleck  It's clear that the major risk factor for ASD is genetic; followed by exposures during early prenatal development. The reasons for the apparent increase in the prevalence of ASD have been explained by "environmental" factors related to diagnostic criteria. 

Those who blame vaccines for ASD should explain how vaccines elevate the risk of dysmorphic features that date to early in gestation among those with ASD; how postnatal vaccines explain why all the children with ASD examined in a recent pulmonary study had abnormal airways (in a pattern fixed within a few weeks of fertilization) while none of hundreds of other children had such airways; why intake of prenatal vitamins and exposure early in development influence the risk of ASD; why maternal obesity, maternal diabetes, and the age of the father (through accumulations of mutations in sperm) increase the risk of ASD; how the proliferation of somatic mutations in neurons early in gestation can be caused by postnatal vaccination; how prenatal exposure to pollution that increases the risk of ASD is associated with postnatal vaccination; why exposure to certain drugs and chemicals early in gestation increases the risk of ASD; and why years of study of what anti-vaccine activists have repeatedly blamed for an "epidemic of autism" have routinely and repeatedly rejected such claims. 

Jayde1001
Jayde1001

@MaurineMeleck  We did study fully unvaccinated children.  That's what all children were for all of human history prior to the middle of the 20th century. The results were that millions upon millions of them ended up permanently damaged or dead. 


So ironic. Parents throughout history who watched their children suffer and die prayed for a miracle to save them.  Now we can.  And now they don't want it.


If indeed more and more parents don't vaccinate, as you say will happen, soon enough we'll be back to those days.  Sad for the children, and sad for us all of us. 


LowellHubbs
LowellHubbs

@nrdavis @DonnaL.Loveless  


You like Plosone, I see, nrdavis.


Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity


Abstract


Background

The cause of autoimmunity, which is unknown, is investigated from a different angle, i.e., the defect in immune ‘system’, to explain the cause of autoimmunity.


Methodology/Principal Findings


Repeated immunization with antigen causes systemic autoimmunity in mice otherwise not prone to spontaneous autoimmune diseases. Overstimulation of CD4+ T cells led to the development of autoantibody-inducing CD4+ T (aiCD4+ T) cell which had undergone T cell receptor (TCR) revision and was capable of inducing autoantibodies. The aiCD4+ T cell was induced by de novo TCR revision but not by cross-reaction, and subsequently overstimulated CD8+ T cells, driving them to become antigen-specific cytotoxic T lymphocytes (CTL). These CTLs could be further matured by antigen cross-presentation, after which they caused autoimmune tissue injury akin to systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE).


Conclusions/Significance


Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality.


http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0008382


vgupta123
vgupta123

@nrdavis @vgupta123  Dr. Gerberding can do whatever she wants. She can take an early retirement, teach, or write books. 

But such a cozy relationship between CDC and vaccine industry only reinforces the perception that the drug industry presents cherry-picked statistical evidence about drugs and vaccines to federal agencies (FDA and CDC) where majority of decision makers are, were, or will be, on their payroll.    

MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@IraEdwards "Vaccine-refusing parents", almost by definition, do not know the science.

The medical and scientific consensus is overwhelmingly in favour of vaccines and their benefits, which hugely outweigh their harms.

Twyla
Twyla

@nrdavis  Genetics don't explain the huge increase in autism we have seen over the past 30 years.


Most people with autism don't have dysmorphic facial features.


Prenatal vitamins may decrease the risk of vaccine injury in a number of ways, including by strengthening the mitochondria.


Maternal obesity and diabetes may represent susceptibility factors - immune system conditions increasing the risk of vaccine injury.  There is a link between obesity and inflammation.  Diabetes (type 1 at least) is caused by autoimmunity.  Inflammation and autoimmunity are linked to autism.  Studies have found inflammation in the brain, inflammatory cytokines in spinal fluid, and autoantibodies to the myelin basic protein coating nerve cells in people with autism.


Prenatal exposure to pollution, drugs, chemicals, and father's age may all be susceptibility factors - toxic influences which may cause susceptibility to vaccine injury.


And, vaccines are not the only cause of autism.  Some cases may be purely genetic, or may be caused by environmental toxins such as mercury.

MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@Jayde1001 @MaurineMeleck Yes we did study "unvaccinated children" Records demonstrate how one in five were killed by an infection before their 10th birthday. The incidence of diseases like pertussis, diphtheria, polio, measles etc was overwhelming. Then vaccines came along

Twyla
Twyla

@Jayde1001 @MaurineMeleck  We gave far fewer vaccines in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's than we do now, and we did not have terrible fatal epidemics.  Not all the diseases we vaccinate against are like polio or smallpox.


And this fear of not vaccinating is just a smokescreen to avoid dealing with very real vaccine problems.  The conversations often go something like this:


A:  "My child received several vaccines at once and that evening developed a high fever, seizures, diarrhea, screaming for hours (or lethargy) and after that stopped talking and playing and was never the same again."


B:  "You irresponsible anti-vaxxer your children are going to get polio and die!"


Um, hello?  Are you listening?  Is that the only possible response to vaccine concerns?

lilady
lilady

@LowellHubbs A study using mice to induce lupus, an autoimmune disorder?  You must be kidding.  What pray tell, has inducing lupus bands in mouse tissue, have to do with childhood vaccines?



MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@vgupta123 @nrdavis Entirely speculative and without any foundation whatsoever.

Could you provide a link to evidence of how many CDC people are also on a pharma industry payroll at the same time? No, you can't.

Can you provide a link to evidence that CDC employees have declared they will resign to work in Pharma industries? No, you can't. 

Why can you not? Because it isn't true, and because you invented it all - a form of what is known as "poisoning the well", an argumental fallacy people use when they have no real evidence. 

LowellHubbs
LowellHubbs

@KenReibel @Twyla  


Actually it is you, Mr Reibel, that again refuses to be bothered with the real facts, evidence, and independent science.  www.vacfacts.info 

Twyla
Twyla

@nrdavis  

UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California's autism increase not due to better counting, diagnosis

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20090218_autism_environment/

Dr. Insel on Rising ASD Numbers: “No Question” About Environmental Factors

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/12/david-kirby-dr-insel-on-rising-asd-numbers-no-question-about-environmental-factors-.html

Autism Spectrum Disorders: Changes in the California Caseload An Update: June 1987 – June 2007

http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/docs/AutismReport_2007.pdf

Autism Not Really on the Rise? 96.7% Impossible.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/autism-not-really-on-the-rise-967-impossible.html

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@Twyla @KenReibel


My opinion is based on facts.”



Ok, here are some facts:

1. you are not epidemiologist

2. you don’t have even the most understanding of the science

3.year after year you absolutely refuse to check with a qualified epidemiologist


Here is an opinion:You will never, ever, ever fact check with qualified scientists because you know with absolute certainly that the anti-vaccs are scam.


Good news:the “epidemic” of autism is such a profoundly obvious scam that anyone that has finished middle-school and easily see the truth and can easily trace the anti-vaccs lying about it year after year…all it takes is the integrity to look.


Hard to believe that some parents would fail their children this way, but there you go….


W&N


MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@Twyla @KenReibel Except that 

1. Autism *diagnoses* have increased, one main reason being that recognition has improved. Diagnostic categories have changed, And now with new changes in diagnostic categories (DSM-V) the prevalence of ASD might fall, showing how dependent on such things the prevalence rates are, and how they may be quite independant of other factors.

2. Autism is not caused by vaccines, numerous studies have looked at the notion, and thrown it out the science lab window with the other garbage.

Twyla
Twyla

@KenReibel @Twyla  I'm not assuming.  My opinion is based on facts.  Autism has increased tremendously over the past 30+ years.  This is confirmed by statistics from the CDC, schools, state agencies, and more.  

KenReibel
KenReibel

@Twyla  There you go again, Twyla, assuming an autism epidemic with zero empirical evidence. But anti-vaxxers never can be bothered with facts. 

MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@Twyla @KenReibel Ken was talking about global deaths, Twyla, as you well know.

And stop promoting the false dichotomy of "disease good, vaccine bad" please. People aren't stupid you know.

Twyla
Twyla

@KenReibel @Twyla  Million or so annual measles deaths?  In the U.S.  there were about 450 annual measles deaths.  Don't exaggerate.


In third world countries there are more deaths from measles, primarily from secondary infections due to malnutrition, lack of antibiotics, and lack of clean water.


I'm not against vaccinating for measles.  I am against denying adverse reactions to measles vaccines.  Adverse reactions need to be studied and treated.

KenReibel
KenReibel

@Twyla  "We gave far fewer vaccines in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's than we do now, and we did not have terrible fatal epidemics."  Except for the million or so annual measles deaths, to give but one example. 

VitoAlexanderPavlovic
VitoAlexanderPavlovic

@JimboJonesIV @MaurineMeleckthe facts are accepted lies, and quotes used by the media and introduced by the pharmaceutical industry to brainwash those most gullible, of course the people that are calling for safe vaccines have done their non-pharma funded research and they know that vaccines cause autism and many other disorders, so no their "Fake Hard Facts" don't impress us.